In this episode, Alex Zweydoff and Lacy Hendricks, co-founders of ClearLead Digital and seasoned PM experts, talk property management SEO in the modern industry. From tips on optimizing websites to working with marketing agencies, they cover all you need to know about the fast-changing SEO landscape.
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Season 5 Episode 9 features Lacy Hendricks, Co-Founder and COO, and Alex Zweydoff, Co-Founder and CEO, of ClearLead Digital.
The book that Alex recommends in this episode is PM Fee Scripts, by Darren Hunter. Lacy recommends $100M Leads, by Alex Hormozi.
The Triple Win Property Management Podcast is produced and distributed by Second Nature.
Andrew Smallwood
Hello, professional property managers. Andrew Smallwood here, with the Triple Win Podcast. I'm really excited for today's episode. I've got two friendly and familiar faces to me, Lacy and Alex joining us today. I'll give them an introduction in just a moment.
But really excited to get into this topic because we're going to be talking about SEO, what's happening to AI. This is a landscape that is shifting under our feet right now. It's important. It's got implications, real consequences, and there's a lot of property managers who are curious about this, asking about it, looking to get more. So I'm excited that we've got two amazing people and a relevant topic and conversation to go through today. And with that, Alex, you know, I'm seeing here that you call yourself a self-taught SEO strategist and a digital marketing expert and content creator.
You know, you've got great history in real estate and property management as director of business development at Allegiant.
And you're a relationship builder. You're somebody who's an educator, very involved in NARPM, a lot of people look to, and you're overseeing sales and marketing, right, in the property management business, but also helping other people in the industry with that as well.
Lacy, great to see you. If you don't know Lacy Hendricks from, from Texas, San Antonio, has specialized in SEO for property management companies. And she's got similarly, deep expertise in property management, but also interest and expertise in hands-on digital strategy. And I think, Lacy, I saw you've got certification.
Lacy Hendricks
I am a certified SEO expert. I enrolled in a class, and it's been about– the initial class was about three months long, but I've stayed enrolled because I just love having all the resources there.
Andrew Smallwood
Very cool. And, again, over a decade in property management. And I don't know if we'll get into it today, but I know you're very active on the legislative and advocacy front for the industry, which is really great to see. Both of you have really given a lot back to the industry and helped in a lot of great ways. And so, listen, what did I miss in my introduction, Alex or or Lacy, that folks should know about you before we jump into this?
Alex Zweydoff
I would say what you missed is just that me and Lacy are both just, we are passionate about the industry, but we're also passionate about helping people. And I think that's why this kind of started.
And it wasn't because we wanted to have an SEO company, but it's because we found something we're passionate about, both passionate about together, but that we're able to help the people that we care about within the industry as well. And I think that's kind of the true message behind the business itself is we're not here to, you know, lead this new SEO company that's out here just creating all these things. We're doing it because we want to help people. It's all the people that we spend time with throughout the year.
And we know that everyone's telling us they have these problems because they see our success with our websites, and they're like, oh, can you help us? And we're like, we can't help you. We're running property management companies.
I don't know what you're talking about.
But then we were like, you know, as we looked at each other, one day and were like, maybe we can help them. You know? Maybe we can really do this. And, that's kind of what it's about.
It's about the passion behind, one, we're nerds at first. We love SEO, we love data, and we love all those things, but we love the property management industry. That's the biggest part.
Andrew Smallwood
And, Lacy, remind me of the name of the company. It’s a web marketing strategy company for property managers?
Lacy Hendricks
Yes, it’s ClearLead Digital.
Andrew Smallwood
ClearLead Digital. We'll get a link to that in the show notes for everybody just to make that easy to find and handy.
And, yeah, I'll start this with what's been your experience with optimizing for search at the property management companies that you guys work with and in your own companies? What are the biggest challenges that you've run into and that, Alex, like you were just referencing, that you're hearing other people are running into right now?
Lacy Hendricks
So for me, I was kind of coming from behind. As you know, there's a lot of heavy hitters in San Antonio. And we came– Kyle and I came up to a point where we were like, okay, we have to start generating leads somehow.
When his father passed away, we lost our main lead source. He was our referral source. He'd been there since the late seventies, and we didn't have to do lead sourcing. It just came to us.
So it really came out of necessity for me. And when I started researching it, I was looking around like, man, how am I going to compete with these websites? And, like, everything was templated that I could buy through industry partners. And I was like, I've done enough websites.
I don't need to do this. I didn't need to buy from somebody else. I could do it on my own. And after looking into it, I was like, okay, but I have to start performing like all of the major hitters in San Antonio. And so I was really coming from behind, and I had to build out all that content. And I was like, okay, I can write these blogs, but then what?
Like, how do I know that these blogs are actually going to do what they're supposed to do and catch me up? And then how do I beat them? Like, how do I get ahead in the rankings? So that's really where I dove into it was, you know, what do I need to do to my website to make it perform at or better than our competitors?
Andrew Smallwood
Mhmm. Alex, what else would you add to that?
Alex Zweydoff
I'd say, mine was definitely, it was like the curtain was kind of pulled back on it. I kind of went outside of the industry to the normal SEO companies and marketing companies that we have that are, like, industry specific. I kind of had someone else take a look at it, and they kind of pointed things out to me that when the marketing agency that we were using, they would present stuff to us, and we were doing Google Ads at the time. They're like, oh, you know, buy more Google Ads. Buy more Google Ads. That's the pitch, you know?
And for me, it was seeing the data presented in a different way. And Tamara, who actually is part of our company with us now, she is the one who kind of opened my eyes to it because she's been doing digital marketing for about twenty years. She has a really good insight on how to break down the data and make it a little more understandable for the average person.
And it was the fact that I– was almost like– I called it a revolt.
That's why I started learning. She's like, here's this– she just told me, this is the system I use to check things. So you know me. I went and downloaded the software and told Maria.
I was like, Maria, we need to buy this, you know, very pricey software. And she said, okay. And so then I just kind of went down this rabbit hole a bit, and I started like, when I call myself a self-taught SEO strategist, I learned the hard way. I learned by doing it wrong seventeen times.
And then once I started getting things, figuring things out, and I was like, okay. This is okay. This is working.
We're seeing we're getting more leads. We're getting better quality leads.
And then me and Lacy one day had a conversation, and we were like, hey, I'm doing my website and she's like, I'm doing my website. So then that kind of brought us together in a sense of we both didn't know we were both secretly nerding out on this in the back end. But then we started sharing tips going back and forth.
She's like, oh, you need to read this, do this. You know? And she does have the certification, but it's you know, it was that bond that brought us together that created you know, really helped create this is because, one, we were both passionate about it, and it was just a really cool space to be in to have someone else be in that, like, weird little zone that no one is really in in our industry because no one has time for this. We're just, we're gluttons for punishment, I think.
You know? We, like, really loved it. So but once you see the results, that's what's the powerful part about it. Google gives you the algorithm.
They tell you what they want. And if you follow those things, you have a much better chance of, you know, hitting it. And there's so many tools out there that are great to– you can go say, I want to be above this person, and you could follow the strategy to do it. And that's the biggest problem in the industry now is no one's following a strategy.
There's no strategy behind the choices that are being made. It's you know? And so that's what we really lean heavy on is a strategy. We're going into this.
We're not just saying, hey. Here's a proposal for you. We're looking at their full gamut. What's their goals?
You know? Are they looking to, you know, get a hundred leads a month? Are they looking to get ten leads a month? So there's different ways to go about things, and you can't promise anything because Google's algorithm changes.
But it's really just about taking a step back and, you know, creating that strategy. And what's great about me and Lacy in this aspect is we've lived down on the other side. We've been the property manager. We know the life cycle of property management.
So that's, you know, first of the month, you're really not focusing on SEO. You know? You're focusing on getting your rents paid and all those kind of things. So we understand that, and I think that's powerful.
Just the knowledge of the industry. That's what's been missing, I think, for every marketing company is they don't take the time to learn our side. And so now we have that already, and it's going to be, I think it's going to be really cool to see what we can do here. But it's again, it's really about helping people because people are all struggling with leads.
And if we’re, depending on how this market's going to be going and, you know, it's going to be a time where you're going to really rely on those leads.
Andrew Smallwood
What I have heard from property managers, I'm sure similar to what you've seen is that, I've talked to some companies where, like, digital, you know, and what's coming through SEO, like, they've really invested in organic, everything and nailed it. I remember, Bay Property Management, Tony, he was on one of our podcasts since at one point, and it's it's their number one lead source. I think more common I've heard is, like, it's in the mix. Right? And then other people who aren't doing it at all.
What are you guys kind of seeing from a standpoint of how SEO fits into the kind of, like, the larger picture and how it compares to other other lead sources that that property managers are leveraging today? It sounds like you feel like there's a big opportunity. Is there a percentage that you kind of see as typical, or does it just totally depend?
Lacy Hendricks
I think it really depends on how much effort you put into it. Right? And what your personality type is too. There's some really great BDMs out there that are really good at doing, like, pop-bys and going and having broker meetings, and that's their style. And that's what they're good at, and that's what they're better at converting. But they don't know anything about the Internet. So, yeah, they could be getting great leads, and they're probably spending a lot of time and money doing that.
But, you know, I'm– yes, I can talk to a wall if I wanted to, but I understand how to make the SEO do all the things that you need it to do. And so, I think it's really how you want to approach it.
Our website is our highest converting and cheapest lead source.
Over the last three months, it's been $8.33 per converted lead. And I'm not talking about just signing a form for us to contact them. I'm talking, like, fully executing a PMA. So, you know, it's where you want to spend your time and money. And, for me, it just makes more sense to do it on the Internet than it does to go out into the public, even though I am very active at my Realtor board and at the NARPM chapter and everything like that. But it's more appealing to me to do it from the SEO perspective.
Andrew Smallwood
$8.33 per signed PMA is something I think everyone would love to see more of in this business.
Lacy Hendricks
Right? And I never had to leave my office.
Andrew Smallwood
That's really exciting. Yeah. There's a lot of invisible costs with other channels, right?
That beyond just the direct cost. Like, once you kind of made the investment and are doing things right, that continues to, like, pay dividends and compound there.
Cool. Cool. Alex, were you going to add something else there?
Alex Zweydoff
I'm going to say, I locked into this so much because it couldn't be everywhere. I was everywhere, and I was doing all the things that I was running myself tired. And the website works throughout the night, you know, while I'm sleeping. And it's, you know, once you get those core things in place and get everything kind of implemented, it's easy maintenance.
So it's a lot less work on your behalf. And once you gain that authority through your website, your website should be your number one salesperson. You know? That's what it is.
When people are searching late at night, you want your website to show up within those top three, preferably the number one. But it's all about, you know, finding your niche in whatever you're trying to do in your market and just making sure you're understanding that it's your voice that’s out there. That's the thing I think most probably most property management companies do wrong is they let someone else tell them what they should have on their website. You know your business better than anyone else.
And that's when I said, like, we took the power back in our website in that sense because other people– when we redid our website, I wrote every word. I made sure it was custom to our company, everything there. Because what's happening out there now, you know, I challenge anyone. Go look at ten websites right now, and you're going to see the same content most likely on the same pages.
And that's a problem because guess what? Those ten, those hundred pages are fighting against each other.
So when we have those strategic keywords and your own fresh content, Google's like, oh, I like that. But when it's on all the bunch of websites, it's, you're just fighting against yourself. It's not doing you any good. You know, and, like, some people just, you know, they say you're ranking for a certain keyword, but is that bringing you any business? That's the real question.
Andrew Smallwood
Mhmm. And so, you know, Alex, earlier you were talking about, if somebody really gets into this and really studies it, you can understand, right, the algorithms. You can understand how the game works. And I'm just wondering if you two could kind of pull back the curtain a little bit here on search data and performance and how property managers can start to think about that. Like, here's what really matters and is ultimately going to put them in a position to succeed there? What your current thinking is on that?
Lacy Hendricks
So you need to make sure that your website is technically sound.
Right? So, like, your pictures are optimized and have alt tags. You have custom URLs that include important words that are not just like property management, but actually important to identifying you as a brand.
You want to make sure that you have social images, meta tags, SEO titles on every page that you have, lots of internal linking and backlinking too, which, backlinking is just literally inserting a URL to an outside source. That's all it is. It's a big fancy word for a URL on your page to sites that have high authority, like the Second Nature website.
Y'all have done an amazing job there, and I really love the site page that y'all built.
I was like, yes, when we got that.
But, yeah, it's just the little tweaks that you can make that really lays the foundation. And then once you get all of that streamlined, or not streamlined, but once you get all the technical worked out, that's when you get into personal branding. That's when you get into the blog writing to identify your brand, and that's when you can really start to see the jump. So, like, within that first one to three months, you get those technical things taken care of. You'll start to see it in the reporting software. And then once you do that, you can start to develop the blogs, and that's when you really start to see a jump up. But, you know, realistically, you're looking at, like, at least six months for that.
Andrew Smallwood
And Alex, you were talking about not just optimizing for search, but also, like, what's ultimately going to convert. Right? Like, that's how you get to $8.30 per PMA. Right? It's not just traffic, but also thinking about this holistically, right?
How can property managers start to like– what are examples of that you could give of, like, okay, maybe this was optimizing for traffic, but then ultimately, this kind of change led to a better business result at the end?
Alex Zweydoff
Yeah. So you're going to want to answer your– you've got to think of it in the sense of what are your clients asking? What are they looking for? What questions are they asking?
What problems are they facing? And, you know, a lot of the strategy that's out there in our industry now is it's “city,” whatever city you're in, “property management.” City, property manager. City, property management company.
That's great. But people when they have a problem or they have a tenant who's not paying rent, what if my what do I do what to do if my tenant is not paying rent? You know, what about you put in there something along the lines like, you know, you know, you also have to keep in mind that, yes, you're going for the owner leads, but to provide authority for your website, you need to create a space for tenants to get there too, to get their traffic. So you're also creating content for the tenants.
So, like, you know, what do I do if I get an eviction notice on my door? You know, things like that. The things that when they're in that moment of I need help, they're searching for. And making sure that you're not– we tend I this was my biggest problem when I first started the content writing was is I was writing way too high level.
And I was writing at a college level, and, the average for Florida, like, every state's different in how they rank it, and there's software to check all that. But Florida itself is between an eighth and ninth grade reading level. That's where you need to write up. So that was really hard for me to kind of take that step back and, like, you know, really simplify it and make it a little more, because like you said, you're going on you're usually googling stuff late at night, at midnight in bed.
You're not thinking, like, you know, college level essays you want to read. You want quick.
You want bullet points. You want all these different things. And it's just, you know, understanding that you want the owner, but you need to provide value because the traffic once you get traffic to your website, that gives Google these little tinglers and then it says, you know, oh, this website's doing something. How long are they staying on the page?
How many links are they clicking? You know? Are they going to other pages on there? So creating that authority within your website with value is probably going to be one of your biggest things just because you want people to stay there.
You want people to find you want them to be the resource for property management, but they're not necessarily looking for property management. But when they do, that's creating that authority, which is when the owners are looking for it, like, oh, you know, property management near me. So it's those long tail keywords that aren't the actual “city property management.” It's all those things that are going to get people to your site, and then they're going to be like, oh, okay.
These are the authority and for this city. Okay? You know, you're doing that. And then they kind of go down the rabbit hole of your website, and then itt gets them.
So it's not that initial grab.
Lacy Hendricks
It's very similar to the in person sales process. Right? You build relationships. You build trust. You build, you know, friendships with the people in our industry. They trust you. They refer clients to you. Here, you're just making friends with the Internet.
Alex Zweydoff
It's very 2009. It’s like MySpace all over again.
Andrew Smallwood
I like this a lot because, like, if you think about, okay, it's natural to search for property management near me or an xyz county, city, you know, whatever it might be. And that's really, I already know I need this solution. So let me search for that and see who provides, you know, that solution.
But, you know, what I hear you talking about is how can you get upstream of the solution into, like, some of the problems. Right? What are just the problems that people are facing? I'll talk how do I deal– rent is two months past due. Right? What do I do? Right? Or how do I file an eviction in Sumner County? Whatever it might be.
Those are the kinds of things, those are problems that people are having and facing, trying to do things on their own and the resident problems as well, to bring that traffic in, and then starting to educate people.
And I can just imagine, wow, okay, I searched something, and I see Allegiant. And then, like, you know, a couple months later, I got another problem. And then, like, oh, they're there again.
And I'm starting to, like, you're building that relationship just like Lacy said you would in person. Like, you're showing up a couple times helping, etcetera, and you build that trust and relationships so that when they are ready to purchase a solution, they know where they want to go to. And you're kind of in that pole position, and that's how you get great conversion there. That's great.
Thank you for walking through that. I'm curious because there's a lot of property managers who are working or considering working with, like, marketing agencies today.
And what advice would you give them about, like, what are the right questions to ask if they're thinking about working with somebody, you know, working with a marketing agency? What advice would you give?
Alex Zweydoff
I would say, you know, look beyond the initial reporting. Ask for some deeper questions about, you know, what's our click through rate. That's really important because, yes, you can be getting, you know, ten thousand impressions, but if you're getting zero clicks, is that doing anything for you? I would definitely ask, you know, what are– look at the keywords.
That's going to be your biggest thing. Because a lot of these marketing agencies, they pick the keywords for you. They tell you what keywords are going to be on your reporting. Say, you know, can I have access to my Google Analytics?
That's the best question you can ask. And Google Analytics and Google Search Console because it gives you all of the data. It tells you what people are clicking to get your website, tells you all the impressions. It tells you every keyword that you showed up for.
And the thing is, the strategy behind a lot of these keywords is you're showing up and getting impressions for this keyword, but it's not on your website. Imagine if you put it on your website. You know, what that could do, and you're actually giving people because Google wants to know what your page is about. They want to know what is on the page.
They want to know what people are going to get from it. And the thing is is they do not want you to put something in there that it's not about. So if you say that you're talking about, you know, escrow accounts and you're talking about security deposits, that's a negative effect for your website because people are getting there. They're not staying.
They're clicking out. Your bounce rate, all these different things really come into it. So just making sure you're looking at, show me what I'm I'm close to ranking for. Show me what the impressions are coming.
And that's going to be huge. But, also, just don't– take a stop. Take a minute. Stop.
Look at that report they're sending you and really look at it. Look at what the data is. Don't look at the pretty colors. You know?
Look at the numbers and look what is actually converting you into business.
What are your top ranking pages? And you're going to know that those are your moneymakers usually because that's where you're leading so make sure you're tracking it through your CRM as well. What page they they fill the form out on because that's going to tell you that there's content on the page that got them there. And just making sure you're tracking that. And so asking for access to Google Analytics and Google Search Console. I promise you, you'll see them go.
Andrew Smallwood
Lacy, any other advice you would give folks if they're talking to a marketing agency or even their current marketing agency, if they have one? What are some of the questions to ask or things that they might do to be getting more out of that or evaluating it at a higher level?
Lacy Hendricks
I don't know. I have a hard time with this one because I've never worked with a marketing agency. I've always done it myself.
I think that it's just really important to be able to have those transparent conversations with them and be like, why don't you know which of these pages perform the best? As a marketing agency, shouldn't you be able to tell me why this page ranks more than this page? And why is my page ranking for “little blue duck” when I sell property management? Like, why are these random keywords my top ranking keywords?
Like, it doesn't make any sense. So just, I think that's where you have to go. You just have to be very frank with them. And they're probably not going to– they're probably going to be a little bit uncomfortable in the beginning, but it'll be okay.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah. It's like, hey. If I get access to GA, Google Search Console, like, I can at least see what is happening. But then there's another question of, like, why is this happening.
Right? And getting that conversation and seeing what level of analysis, what level of, you know, care and depth, right, that the marketing agency is bringing to that. And, hey, like, do the insights track with what you guys are saying right here and, like, the ways to think about it, that are ultimately going to drive results?
I think that's great.
Okay. I want to click forward to looking forward. And I say looking forward, but, like, some of this is, like, happening right now. What's changing, you know, with SEO and the future of SEO. There's a lot changing and moving around on us.
Bring us up to speed on what are the biggest shifts that you're seeing that are happening right now. And, Lacy, I'll come to you first.
Lacy Hendricks
Okay.
So, obviously, you have your AI mode in Google.
That's going to be, like, the biggest shift, I guess, that most Internet users notice to start off with.
The headline I keep seeing is SEO is dead in 2025, and that is just a nice attention grabber because if you're still not if you're not laying the foundations of SEO, Google's not going to put you in AI mode. Like, it's just not going to happen. So you still need to be implementing these best practices and technical optimizations on your website to get to that point. And then once you like, that's what's going to get you up there. If you look at the data, it says, like, Quora and Reddit are some of the top cited pages, and Yelp, which drives me insane.
But, like, you still need to have a Google My Business profile to get into the top of ChatGPT because it still pulls data from there. So even if you don't have a Reddit page started, because I've done that once and it was crazy, and I don't ever use it. Like, I started a forum to try to just, like, learn about it and see what it was. And, just keep doing the things that you know are right, and you will get up there.
But if you don't engage at all online, if you're not aware of your brand footprint and know exactly what platforms you're active on, then you're not going to show up in the LLMs. Any sort of AI search, whether it's ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, any of them. If you are not cognizant or aware of where your branding lies, then you're not going to show up. And that's really what they're trying to get at with the LLMs, is trying to find the specific brand for what the users are searching for by the words that they're searching for them. So, like, knowing your buyer persona is incredibly important to be able to rank in the top of the LLMs because they're looking very, very specific at which ones they make the recommendations to by what you've prompted them with.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah.
It's so interesting, like, as a, you know, using the LLM tools today myself, it's like you can just totally see why this is going the direction it's going. Because as opposed to typing in a question and seeing a page of blue links and then clicking into that and then, like, going through it for an answer, it's now you can type it in and just get your answer. Like, It kind of cuts that– it's a shortcut, right, to the kind of end result.
And as, obviously, they improve and that gets more reliable and sources are cited and things like that in it, that experience is, like, pulling more people into it. But all of those answers are based on the content, right, that's out there.
And so to your point, like, you've gotta that that doesn't mean, like, hey. You give up on this. This is important because you've got to get the content out there and prove for what they're going to pull out that it's going to be relevant, right, and what people want to see.
Alex, like, what else would you kind of add to this as far as the shift that you're seeing right now?
Alex Zweydoff
You're going to see a drop in your traffic. It's coming because they're not clicking on your website because they're getting that answer right there. So, you know, you need to prepare yourself for that, but the traffic isn't really what does it. It's like, again, creating that brand recognition.
It's making sure that you have your Google My Business plus every other– wherever you can get your brand online, get it on there. You know? Except the bad websites. But, you know, like, get it out there wherever you can.
And one thing I recommend I always tell people to do is go on to ChatGPT and say, what does the consumer think about my brand? About my brand. And it's going to tell you. And it's going to pull things probably that, you know, that were reviewed from ten years ago that's been sitting there and just been basting on the Internet.
But you can change those things. You can change your front page of Google. It's very doable. It's just about creating content that ranks above that.
And, you know, building your relationships with vendors, with everyone in the industry to get these backlinks and to create that online presence. The more you are online, the better you're going to have a chance to show up in those LLMs. But the thing is you want to make sure to provide– it all comes back to providing quality content, providing answers to the questions that people have.
You know? And me and Lacy got a sneak peek to a new tool that's not even public yet recently about AI. It’s an AI tool that is basically telling you, it can tell you down to the keyword, to the prompts asked what people are looking for so you compare yourself against competitors. So what they did is in this one, they used it against car companies.
So it was a pitch to a car company, and they kind of pitched it against cars. So they're like, you know, if you're lacking in this area, this is where maybe you need to go push up in your marketing next month, next quarter. You know? So they can really take a very deep dive into it because this data is there.
Ask ChatGPT when you're doing it, who are you using to pull this information from? Because that's your answer. That's where you want to go be on.
You know, Quora. I'm very big on Quora now. I love it. It's like, I didn't realize it was still around after all these years.
And I'm out there asking questions and doing things, but it's working because that's one of the biggest lead sources. Reddit, Pinterest, all those high authority websites. You know? I was talking with the client the other day, and they were like, I'm not creating those. I'm not going to be posting.
I said, I said, I don't care if you ever post on it once. I said, you need to get that backlink on there because Pinterest is the number two authoritative website besides Wikipedia. And whether you're on it or not, you want your website on it. That's a good thing for you.
So people need to get behind the thing that– “I'm not doing social media.” And, like, I was very much against that too in the beginning, but put your link wherever you can put your link. That's kind of the– that's the game. I will trade backlinks for anything.
Call me. We'll trade backlinks.
But that's really what I'm doing. When I started this process, that's what I was doing. I was like, hey. I'll give you a backlink. You give me a backlink. You know? So get creative with it.
But another thing, don't buy backlinks.
Don't buy backlinks. It's going to– it can be very negative for your website. There's these websites out there that will tell you they'll give you hundred or thousand, you know, authority website, authoritative websites. No.
They are bad dark webs, and then Google will essentially blacklist you.
Andrew Smallwood
Okay. So you're reminding me of this thing that happened last month where I was sitting with a small group of property managers who, one of the great things about this industry is, like, quote, unquote competitors are all, like, friends and very collaborative, right, and helping each other. And they were talking about this topic a little bit, and they just typed in to their favorite, you know, LLM, like, who's the best property manager in xyz Florida.
And the name that popped up was, like, the person sitting next to him's company. Right? And then they typed in, like, no. It's not. It's this company. It's my company. Right? Like, they were joking about it.
And then it was almost this, like, arms race of, like, I'm going to have my VAs going in every day and telling the LLM that I'm the best company in xyz. Is that an effective strategy, like, interacting directly with the LLM? Does that work? And like you were saying, Alex, of, people may be thinking, like, oh, I should just go purchase backlinks. Right? Versus, hey. Like, are there other common kind of, like, misconceptions about how to approach this, that you think it would be helpful to kind of correct the record on?
Alex Zweydoff
It's all about again, you're providing that value. So whatever it is. So the approach that I took when I first started is I was reaching out to people who are, like, news articles or things they were doing they were doing certain topics. And then, hey.
This would be a great resource for your article. Or you there's there's definitely there's other services out there that you can you can go through and use to say, like, when people are writing articles and they're looking for they're looking for information and data, you can they they see you they send out an email and says, like, hey. They're looking for this on this topic. And so you can submit your stuff to them and get those backlinks.
But it's really, your most valuable is going to be just being into, you know, the Reddits, the you know, all those little things where people are. But like I said, I didn't realize Quora was still a thing. Like, when it popped up on it, because I'm so I'm a Semrush ambassador, and they give us all this data and stuff to basically go over and tell the latest trends. And, like, when they sent, like, the top thirty, I was shocked. Like, I knew Wikipedia was going to be up there, but, like, you know, all the other some of the ones up there, I'm like, I never heard of these websites.
And it's like, Yelp is getting like, Yelp's making a comeback. Like, I thought Yelp was done. You know? That was like a very early-2000s restaurant thing, and it's like but it's like, if you're not on there, you need to be on there.
So me and Lacy have been optimizing our Yelps for the past, like, six months to a year and, like, you know, really doing those things because that's going to be the new answer. ChatGPT, all these things, that's where people are going. I have leaned into it so hard that I think my typing has gotten worse. You know?
Like, oh, they'll fix it.
Lacy Hendricks
The reason why they're citing these sources is because they've been on the Internet for so long, and they have the reputation of being able to provide the information that the people are looking for. So, again, building that authority, building that trust, and that's why they cite them is because they've been around forever. They should know what they're talking about. Right?
Andrew Smallwood
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Yeah. To that comment about, like, oh, I'm just going to tell ChatGPT that I'm the best, etcetera. You know, I saw another post from a vendor action space who mostly works in multifamily, and they do, like, electric charging, like electric car charging. And they were saying, hey, type into your, you know, who's the best provider? This, that, whatever it might be.
And it was because they had typed it into their own ChatGPT and saw that they were ranked number one. But then all the comments were like, oh, it's it's other vendors. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. This, this, that. And it made me realize, okay. Like, obviously, the LLMs, like, they're starting to use memory and, like, remember the user and this and trying to provide relevant information to them.
And so, like, hey, a strategy of, like, I'm just going to tell, you know, my my, my ChatGPT exactly this is it's not going to have the impact maybe that people would think that would expect, and they need to be doing exactly what you guys are are are saying here, right, which is get that content out there so that when somebody's doing that for the first time, it's going to pull up for them.
Okay.
Thinking about the future, there's going to be a lot of folks who say, okay, there's a lot to learn. Like, I could go deeper here. Clearly, there's, like, opportunity here, and, you know, there's important things to learn how to know and do so that I'm doing the right things, but I'm busy, you know, and I don't have a ton of time for this. Right?
What advice would you give them about, like, not getting overwhelmed by that and, like, how the, what's the best way to kind of, like, get started, so to speak? Where would you recommend they start?
Lacy Hendricks
So just go to ChatGPT and be like, how can I improve my website? And then make it you know, dedicate one hour a week to just working on your website. You don't have to, like, produce crazy content. You don't have to go all in.
Like, Alex and I go down these rabbit holes of, like, doing all the things. You don't have to do that. Just you know? And it will take longer.
But as long as you're constantly working on making it better, you will eventually get there. So okay. You may only be able to post one blog post every two or three weeks. You're still building that content.
You're still building your reputation and authority. So even if it takes you longer than you would like, the fact that you're actually putting the energy and the effort to work on it, you're already one step ahead for most people.
So that would be my advice is don't get intimidated by the amount of work that has to be done. As long as you create a road map to get it done and hold yourself accountable, then I think that eventually you will get there.
Alex Zweydoff
What she said, what I heard, is create a strategy.
Create a strategy and be consistent with it. And just don't think that you sit a blog there, it's going to just do it. You have to come by and update it with the latest and greatest. You know? If a law passes or something happened, go throw a little blurb in there about that.
Google wants, they want authority with what your content is, so they want something that's updated and new. So if, you know, Second Nature releases a new, you know, a benefit, you're going to go update the blog on your resident benefit. In July of 2024, they introduced this. You know, whatever it may be.
And just making sure you're saying it because you want to remain authoritative, and that comes with knowledge because people are looking for new things and making sure that it's updated content.
Andrew Smallwood
Yep. Okay.
The way we like to wrap this up is like a fun kind of like lightning round. So we're going to go through some, like, fun questions with, with quick answers.
Okay. If you could recommend one book that every property manager sees and reads, what would be the first one that you recommend? And, Alex, I'll start with you.
Alex Zweydoff
Hold on. Let me look at my little collection over here. I got it right here.
PM Fee Scripts from Darren Hunter out of Australia. This book has gotten me out of so many, it goes basically over any objections you have. With business development, I deal with objections a lot. But it's also for the property manager too because it's objections about, you know, challenging what your pricing, or not necessarily your pricing, but just what your value is.
And he just sent me his new one, but this has been around. And I have one that's in my office that is beat up and has notes all over it. And it's really, it's the scripts. It's the answers to all the problems that we have.
And I'm telling you, some of these things I use every day. My favorite one out of that one is, when someone says, you know, can you give me a discount? And so I say, for me to discount my pricing, I'd have to discount my services, and that's just not something that we're willing to do. You know?
And I use that all the time. It's like, I integrate some of these things into my daily pitches and all these things, and there's some– they're a great team over there, but that is my number one right now. It has been for the past couple of years.
So I could go tell you twenty more books, but that's the one I use most.
Andrew Smallwood
Love that. Lacy, one book, what would it be?
Lacy Hendricks
So I don't really get to read a whole lot of books because of my kids.
But, obviously, Million Dollar Leads is a great one.
And I've really been crushing on Hold It with PM Jen lately, which is a podcast, which is a lot easier for me to do.
So if you want a great podcast, that one's a fun listen.
Andrew Smallwood
Hold It with PM Jen Ruelens. Love that. Lacy, great share. And was it Million Dollar Leads?
Is that right? Awesome. Okay. Great.
Okay. Next one, Lacy, I'll come back to you.
What is one thing that you feel like people should be talking about more in the industry today, but they're not? Like, what's something that should be getting more airtime than it's getting in property management today?
Lacy Hendricks
I mean, I can always come back to legislative.
But I feel like it does get talked about within our industry, but I don't know if we're being loud enough about it because of all the crazy stuff that's going on. But I feel like that's a cop out answer. I don't know. Alex, what do you think?
Alex Zweydoff
Well, I feel like my answer might be a little more of a cop out but it's your website and SEO.
Like, they need to talk about it. And that's why I think everyone's going to have this conversation. It's felt like a dirty secret they were talking to us about it, and they were like, oh my gosh. You know?
Every time you've had a conversation with somebody, it kind of feels a little like people are scared of it. Don't be scared of your website. Take it back. Take your website back and make it yours.
You know? And, really, you are paying– I always say this, and I say this kind of with anything we do in Allegiant is when someone works for us as, you know, a vendor or whatever, they are working for us. We work for the owner. So you need to keep– you're paying them.
You are paying them a service.
Make them do what you want with what you want on your website. You have that power, and don't let someone else run your business. That's the biggest thing. We took our power back in the business when we took a little more control over our site. And, you know, I think that was huge for us because stop letting other people run your business.
That's the biggest takeaway.
Lacy Hendricks
What I don't understand, so, like, people see websites as a brochure, and it's way more than a brochure. Right? Because it should be– this is like your 24/7 salesperson.
But would you take a brochure that you had not approved the content for and just, like, pass it out to anybody that you're trying to get to convert?
Like, why were you letting somebody else control the message surrounding your business?
Doesn't make any sense.
Andrew Smallwood
Mm-mm. When you put it that way. Yeah. That makes you think different about it.
Okay. Last couple ones that are quick here.
As you look forward to the future and you see the opportunities and challenges in front of the professional property management industry, what excites you most? What gives you the most optimism? What makes you like, when you look forward and see what's in front of us, what gets you most excited?
Lacy, we'll start with you.
Lacy Hendricks
I'm really loving the amazing tools that our industry is producing right now.
I'm really excited to see the stuff that's come– the new products that are coming out from, you know, Second Nature, Super, Boom. Like, they're all doing– and Blanket! Like, they're all doing super cool things, and AI is just making it that much easier. And even bringing that down a level, like, I've been creating lead gen magnet tools, like interactive widgets I can put on my website through tools like Replit and Lovable.
And I'm not a developer. Like, I know HTML, but I I'm not a software developer. But the fact that, like, we unfortunately, we lost a staff member. She had a knee accident, and she couldn't come back to work.
And I automated her job myself. Like, what? It's like, it doesn't– I'm not a software developer, but I was able to do it because I have, you know, I have access to the tools. And for us to be able to create custom plugins like that, it's just like the sky is the limit.
And, like, you really, it's how creative can the people inside of our industry be? Because that's really the limit of what we'll be able to achieve as a group moving forward. And that's just really exciting to me.
Andrew Smallwood
Alex, as you look to the future, what gives you the most hope, optimism, excitement?
Alex Zweydoff
Don't listen to Lacy. She is very, very good at all that stuff. I've seen some of the things she does that scare me.
Right now, honestly, I have to say it's NARPM 2.0. That is what I'm really excited about. I am officially elected on the board as of now for next year, next two years. Three years. Oh my gosh. Three years. And I'm really excited about the changes that are happening within NARPM.
We have a new CEO who is awesome. You know, Troy, we've worked so closely with him in governmental affairs, and his passion and his knowledge is going to, I think, really take us to another level. We're sad to see Gail go, but to see NARPM be able to step into that new chapter and to know that the board that we have coming in is really locked in about the membership again. And that's something that I think we're all going to see.
So I think this is the time to get involved in NARPM. This is the time to, you know, get back into NARPM if you've stepped away for a while because this is– NARPM is going to be the center for anything that's happening as far as, there's some legislative pretty crazy legislation going out there right now. They're coming after taking away being able to run credit reports for applications at federal level. So there's a lot of crazy things, and people probably don't even know about that.
You know? And it's like, they're very early in the stages, but those things, we are– NARPM has really created a relationship with other industries too. So our power is strong right now in the legislative thing, and we're going to have to band together, and that's the only way things are going to get done. But I'm really excited about NARPM right now.
I think that's, I've been renewed again in that, just with everything that's been happening and all the great changes and the things I know that are coming. It's going to be some really cool stuff, so definitely keep an eye out for what they have coming.
Andrew Smallwood
NARPM 2.0. Very exciting. Very exciting. And, both of you, like, amazing leadership in NARPM.
And, yeah, really, really excited about what's in front of us on both of those fronts. So, Lacy, Alex, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate this. As usual, great content, great education.
Love your passion for this, everything else.
If people were looking to, like, connect more with you or learn more, what's the best place for them to go or to do that?
Alex Zweydoof and Lacy Hendricks
ClearLeadDigital.com!
Andre Smallwood
ClearLeadDigital.com. Alright. That's easy. We’ll get that in the show notes so that it's easy for people to find. Lacy, Alex, thank you again.
Lacy Hendricks
Thank you.
Alex Zweydoff
Thank you, Andrew.