In the season 6 premiere of The Triple Win Property Management Podcast, Andrew is joined by Daniel Madison of Rhome to discuss his success in improving the resident experience with Group Rate Internet. By offering gig-speed internet as a lease-enrolled service, Rhome is driving easier move-ins and a 97% enrollment rate.
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Season 6 Episode 1 features Daniel Madison, National Director of Revenue and Sales at Rhome.
The Triple Win Property Management Podcast is produced and distributed by Second Nature.
Andrew Smallwood
Hello, professional property managers. Andrew Smallwood here on the Triple Win Podcast. I am joined today by my good friend and longtime industry professional, Daniel Madison, who's the National Director of Revenue at Rhome Property Management, who's been making some waves. And Daniel, I know you're well known amongst the NARPM crowd and certainly people in South Carolina and the Carolinas especially.
I know you've been a long time Second Nature customer and friend, which we really appreciate the partnership over the years pre-Rhome and since you joined Rhome.
But, yeah, maybe you could give just a little bit of context about you, how you got started in property management, and how you got into your current role at Rhome today.
Daniel Madison
Yeah, thanks, Andrew. I appreciate you having me.
My journey started out in 2013 and I was looking for a career change, and property management was where I landed. And so I started at a desk with a phone and a phone script and a Craigslist of homes that were available and I was off and running. And so 2020 led me to sell to a local competitor that was larger than my company was in order to come in and do some of the programs, actually, that we're talking about here with Second Nature and help them develop their processes and systems into a place.
And that led us to 2021 where Rhome came into the picture and actually acquired that company. And so my experience is different in that I've been a small operator. I've worked in a mid tier operation and running that for a few years. And then I've worked on the national side working with folks all over the country on a very large platform. And so it's a very unique look at the space that we're in and one that I'm very appreciative and enjoy being a part of.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah, I think you do. Like very few people have operated at all those different levels of scale. And I do think that puts you in a great position to provide a unique perspective there. I'm curious, Daniel, just to ask that question, when you think about, what is the biggest difference that you notice when you think about those three different chapters or stages?
What stands out there as you're talking to other property managers and talk to them about operating at those different levels of scale? What do you notice are some of the differences that people would be interested in learning more about?
Daniel Madison
There's certainly differences at each level of that. And as you scale up the business within property management, what I find is my heart is in the small mid-tier and even the large companies operate very similarly in those smaller areas. There are local operations that are running small portfolios and then there's other markets that are much larger. They all roll up to a much larger number.
But it really is about your local marketplace. Who you're serving and your clients, your tenants. Being a part of that community is really what's special about property management. And really regardless of the size, it's the same in many, many ways. We just have economies of scale and a little different opportunities when you have those units all rolled together.
Andrew Smallwood
And so Daniel, can you give people who are less familiar with Rhome just a sense of what the Rhome portfolio looks like today, size of the company? Obviously you mentioned joining in 2021 and would love to hear, at this point in 2026, obviously if you wanted to be doing something else, you probably could be and just would love to hear what you're enjoying about it and why you're excited to continue building with Rhome today.
Daniel Madison
Yeah, so Rhome is a unique place. It is a part of Assosia, which is a forty year old company that spans into the HOA marketplace across the US, Canada, and continues to expand outside of those areas.
What I enjoy and what keeps me at Rhome is relationships. It's about an opportunity to work with a team that continues to want to be better, to be challenged, that's not afraid to do hard things.
And we serve the individual property management companies from our leadership team. And so it's really a fun place to be because instead of landlords and tenants, which our operators get to do on a local basis, we get to serve those operators and their needs. And that is a different challenge. It's a place where we are challenged daily.
And unlike some of the other companies that you see that do acquisitions, we don't come in and change everything and roll everything up to one look and one feel. We actually allow the operator to continue to operate in a way that they've been operating. We provide national support, leadership, and opportunities to be able to grow their business quicker and more profitably with what they do. Today, we span across about forty different marketplaces.
That number of units is expanding past fifty thousand.
And we continue to grow and continue to enjoy bringing new people into the Rhome family.
Andrew Smallwood
It's awesome. I mean, it's a very elite group who are operating at the level of scale, but it's a little bit different to have that as still keeping parts of the local brand and, the local operation versus really standardizing that across is kind of a different approach that we've seen a lot of folks take to that.
Daniel, one of the reasons we wanted to connect today and we've been hearing from our audience is they want to hear from people like you who are very deep in the like resident experience and resident services space, right? And this is a big part of your responsibility for a big organization.
And specifically talking about Group Rate Internet because you were one of our first clients, you know, rolling that out, have done a fantastic job. Maybe I'm spoiling a little bit of how this went, but you’ve done a great job.
And we just want to capture a little bit of what went into that decision, how you guys are evaluating success, what are the keys to success and answering questions other people want to know. So tapping into Group Rate Internet a little bit, can you take us back to a little over a year ago how you were thinking about internet as a part of the resident experience before group rate internet? Just like what that looks like at that point in time?
Daniel Madison
You know, it's a good question. And prior to Group Rate Internet, it was just another utility. It may have been captured through one of the utility concierge, but it was another checkbox when someone was moving in. Do they have electric? Do they have water? Do they have internet? And it was a part of a routine checklist.
What we have found through group rate internet and a year ago when we saw that was there was an opportunity to change that experience. It was an opportunity when the tenant moved in to be able to have internet that was readily available to them that was higher speed than what most people experience or typically select when they're selecting plans at a very competitive rate.
And it was a differentiator for someone that was moving into a home with Rhome. And so we were an easy sell. We were bought in. We have done a fairly good job as an operation rolling out Resident Benefits Packages and other resident experiences. And so when Group Rate Internet came along, to us, it seemed like a no brainer. We did have our hesitations of all the things that you could think of that could go wrong with group rate internet. Internet as a whole and the client services side of that.
We really have an experienced rollout. We are in eleven states today. We're adding states very actively as we work through this. It's been a really positive experience.
Clearly we know that residents are appreciating and the opportunity for the operator to provide a different level of experience and to be able to make some margin on that is certainly very positive for us.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah, I like what you shared. So it sounds like, before you guys were obviously participating in the concierge model, Second Nature likewise, right? That's where our business was and what we supported, how we engaged with it before. What you saw in the opportunity was, hey, there's an opportunity to drive group rate pricing for the resident to get a really strong combination of speed, right, and price together there. That'd be well received in a managed experience and an opportunity to participate in that as a business that you know was attractive to you all. I want to dig more into the hesitations of like okay going from concierge to a group rate program like this.
While you said it didn't play out exactly how you thought it might, what were some of the hesitations that you guys were kind of concerned about going in when you're rolling it out?
Daniel Madison
Yeah, so internet, say whether it's internet, cell phones, buying a car, going to the dentist, typically are not high on the list for most people to have to engage in either of those types of services.
And so the concerns were, what happens when the inevitable happens? Internet's down. Internet is not working at the speed that it's supposed to. What happens to the equipment at move in, move out?
How does my tenant get the equipment? Can I do it in the same timeframes that the tenant's getting it typically through another provider? And so all of those were concerns. The turnover is certainly a concern.
When the tenant moves out. How are we going to get that equipment back? Do we have to manage that equipment? Is the tenant going to manage the equipment?
Are there going to be chargebacks that we're going to have to write off on our systems because we can't collect it back from the tenant? Those were all concerns, hesitations that we had as we looked at group rate internet.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah. And so maybe you could speak, I know you covered a lot of ground there, which I'm sure is just you saying out loud what people are thinking in their heads are the natural questions we hear all the time as we're talking to folks of what is this going to mean for me operationally, taking this on. And am I suddenly participating so directly in the internet business that I'm going to be taking on the brand risk? I'm taking on operations logistics. Am I taking on financial risk? Like what do those things look like? And I'd love for you to share what got you confident and comfortable to move forward with this and how has it kind of played out for you guys since?
Daniel Madison
Yeah, and so Second Nature has done a good job with each of the products that you guys have provided. And so the relationship was there already. We had a high level of confidence in the partnership and who we were working with. Just like any new partnership, we expect that there's going to be some new challenges that we weren't quite expecting.
Being an early adopter and being a large rollout, we certainly face those. But true to the partnership, we found solutions very quickly and everybody took full ownership of that as we walked through it. And so what we recognize is that operationally, there's no additional lift to us as we work with the Group Rate Internet. Once you plug it into your systems, we're still communicating about internet as we once did through move-ins and those checklists and utility concierge with it. It's just different today in that the service is being provided.
They do have support and a service number that is there for them and we're operationally not doing anything additional than what we were before. On the leasing side, we may have a few more questions for clarification that is required. We have some promotional materials and things that we use to help offset some of that, to help provide that education to the tenant. But overall, it really has been operationally a sound practice.
After a few little modifications in the very beginning there, it's really run very smoothly.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
I think a question a lot of people might be asking is, hey, is this something I can do myself? Is this something I should partner on, etcetera? And I think Rhome, you know, the size and scale that you guys are at, there's a number of things that you guys do for yourself, so to speak. And obviously still some things that you partner on.
Can you talk through how you guys kind of thought through that decision in this case as it relates to the internet program of how you guys wanted to participate in that versus what you decided to partner on?
Daniel Madison
Yeah.
So when you're at scale and you have size, it seems like why not? We can develop it, we can do it. And what you realize very, very quickly is there's a lot more behind it than what you recognize. You're creating a whole other business doing that. And so the partnership for us is it allows us to roll it out very quickly, be able to implement it very quickly.
Could we stand up a service center? Could we stand up an operational center? Could we figure out the technical pieces of it? Yes, with time we could, but it would have taken a long time. And this allows us to plug and play, allows us to get into market quickly, allows us to be out in front of the market quickly.
And so, for me, I'd much rather work with a partner for something like this than I would to try to recreate it on our own.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah. This is kind of a unique one, I think, too, because at Second Nature, as we were thinking about this like, hey, why does it make sense for us to be in this business? Because operating at a level of scale that we have, a million plus units, it's helped us as we've engaged the ISPs and really brought this program to the SFR market in a way they never have before.
It's led to faster collaboration, working through some of those initial kinks, right? You were talking about how that's some of the value we provide and we can do this at economics that are stronger than you'd be able to get on your own. And the idea that SFR operators, like something that's very different from multifamily, is you have one building and there's one provider, right, for that building. But in any one of Rhome's markets, there's multiple providers, right, just to cover that.
And so lining up all those agreements, unifying it all in one program, etcetera, That's a lot of how we think about driving this. And I think earlier you said you guys are live in eleven states, and continuing to expand from there. Can you talk a little bit about the metrics of how you're seeing success? What kind of adoption you're seeing across the resident base and the feedback that you're hearing from residents?
Daniel Madison
Yeah, so far we're about ninety seven percent with adoption into that program.
When we looked at the program, honestly, I didn't think our adoption would be as high as it is.
Ninety seven percent we're super excited about. We would love to ink out another one or two percent and push that up to ninety nine with it. But yeah, we've had a really good adoption rate as we've rolled out in those different markets. As far as the second part of that question, and I've drawn a blank Andrew in the midst of that. Second part of that question was?
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah, just feedback you're hearing from residents.
Daniel Madison
Residents, yeah, feedback has been good. You know, there's a little hesitation. What happens if I have a combination of services is probably one of the biggest questions that we have.
Hey, I've got a great deal. This is what it looks like. It's combined with a few things.
But overall, once they understand the program, and that's really the success of the program of our individual property managers and operators, is being able to share what the program is, how it operates, what the value is behind it, and with confidence, direct them to get answers to their questions. Second Nature's done a fantastic job of supporting those questions directly, not through the property manager. And so, we have the basic information and then we have a resource to be able to direct them to get detailed information that can work through that. And so, the overall feedback has been really good.
Any negative feedback that we have is primarily folks that just don't understand the program. Hey, I've got this or I got that or I got a better deal. Then when they really dig into it and they compare apples for apples, many of those have even come back with a positive response of saying, I didn't realize what exactly what I was getting. And once I got clarification, this is great.
Sign me up. I want to be on the program.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah.
Think you guys are past this now, and so it's like it isn't even coming up in this conversation. But I know some of the property managers we talk to today, Daniel, there's obviously softness in the market, right? And days on market have gotten longer. There's been more pricing pressure or just declining rents and kind of a question of like, okay, if I add something like this right now, could it interfere with my core business leasing? And I know that hasn't been your experience, but maybe you could just speak to that specifically if there's anything you can make explicit there.
Daniel Madison
Yeah, again, understanding the value proposition, differentiators in the market, helping folks understand what my rent is and then what else is included with that rent. It really simplifies the process for the tenant. We have not found it to slow down the leasing process at all. It certainly is a softer market than what we've experienced the last few years.
And what we find is that tenants are valuing more and more what all is included. We're getting the questions that we didn't get a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago, what's the price and how quickly can I move in? And today it is what's the price and what's included in that rent? And so we're getting a much more educated tenant that is experiencing things from different housing providers that they appreciate and enjoy.
We have people that are asking about services that they've never asked about before. So they like the combination, the ease of that. It's not another utility to set up, not another utility to have to manage. It's all just included in the rent.
And so I compared a lot to having a mobile phone service and some of the TV services like Netflix and Prime and those things that are included at a discounted rate into some of those services. I utilize those and appreciate those with it. And it also helps me stay a longer customer to those providers. Because as I look at those providers, go, well, man, I have to unplug all this stuff to move to somebody else and I don't want to unplug it all.
I'll just sit where I'm at.
And I hope that's the same opportunities that we are having with residents that they're staying longer. I don't have data to share with that yet, but I'm looking forward to having data to see both on the leasing side as well as renewal side of what these programs do to improve both sides of that.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah, really well said. It's interesting. Some of the other folks who've been operating with, you know, one of the largest owner operators in the country with ninety thousand plus units who we've been rolling this out with, their property is actually leasing five days faster. So like five less days vacant, which was kind of unexpected. We were kind of thinking maybe this will be about flat and that would be great because that's a win even with just that being… but to your point, there's more educated residents out there. We're seeing things like ninety percent of residents like the number one thing they want is high speed internet.
So, yeah, it's been attracting quality residents and actually pulling people in and through the leasing process. And then those who do have questions or like, how do I get this bundled with my TV and mobile, etcetera, a lot of that is addressed in how the program works. So those residents can get the financial benefits of the group rates, still get all the services they want, and Second Nature manages that conversation. So it doesn't become a back and forth with your leasing team or slow things up.
Daniel, I gotta ask you this question, which is, if a property manager is considering this or thinking about it, they're on the fence, what have we not covered that you would want to know if you could take yourself back a year ago knowing what you know now?
What else you would want to understand or what you would want to hear?
Daniel Madison
Yeah, I think understanding the process, what does it look like to actually onboard this? How much lift is it for the company to walk through the process of setting it up?
That's always a big concern as we roll into different seasons and leasing, having the time to actually implement these types of programs. And so that is a question I get regularly. We have operators all across the country. I've rolled this out to thirteen, I guess. As we sit here today, we have eleven markets that are active and two more that are going active very shortly with others to follow.
As we roll that out, that's their first question. How long is it going to take me? How much do I have to do to get this program up and going?
Sincerely, within a couple of weeks, we have that program set up ready to go and it takes a couple of really quick meetings. And so, I think that's first and foremost is what's the lift? What is it going to take to be successful? And then what does success look like with this program?
What are my expectations for actually being able to implement this? If there's a drawback to the program from me, as I looked at it and I said, Hey, we're going to go across the platform. We're going to do all new leases, all renewals. We're going to go super, super fast.
And so that we're not quite to the renewal stage yet. And so it's all new leases. And so as I saw those numbers start to come in and to add up, they were going a little slower than I desired them to go. And then I had to realize that, hey, we're only doing new leases.
We're not doing lease renewals for variable reasons and that will come as well with time. And so the process being patient and seeing the process roll through, this is not something that you're going to turn on tomorrow and that eighty, ninety, one hundred percent of your portfolio is going to be fully onboarded within a year based on leases and lease renewals with it. It is a much longer game as you look at this. So looking back, an earlier question that you had was what did we not know then that we know now?
That's certainly a learning point from this as I look at these numbers.
We see it as, hey, it's a little bit longer road with what we're doing and we're okay with that.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great point because obviously there's operational headaches with existing equipment and existing service and getting things switched that we've been taking a very thoughtful approach to that, so that it's the same kind of experience for you and for residents at renewal. But I know the teams are excited about working on that and accelerating the impact for everybody. I think that's great feedback and a great thing for people to know as they're going into it.
Daniel, because I have you and we’ve got a couple more minutes, I want to ask you a couple of lightning round questions. These will be quick questions and quick answers as a bonus for folks. So one thing that always stands out to me about you, Daniel, in our interactions is you're a very growth minded type of person. And I see a lot of other property managers in the industry who gravitate to you because I think you just take a very empowered type of attitude towards things. I'm just curious where it can be challenging with everything going on in property management. I know it can be overwhelming, everything else going on. And what have been some of the things for you that have kind of helped you keep that perspective that keeps you focused, keeps you growth oriented, and really engaged and motivated to continue to raise the bar?
Daniel Madison
Well, I hide it well, first and foremost, because we all feel those pressures and things that come along. But certainly the National Association of Residential Property Managers, NARPM has been a great educator, a great sounding board, a great opportunity to build relationships and connections. Relationships serve so much in everything that we do. So whether that's a vendor or even your competitor across town that you're walking with just to try to figure out what's going on here or there.
And so those things all keep me grounded as well as a personal faith, a personal challenge to continue to grow. And so I think it's important that we don't stay in an echo chamber of things and that we're consistently looking outside of our environments and knowledge bases to glean what knowledge we can from those things and apply them and hopefully see positive outcomes from them.
Andrew Smallwood
Awesome. Love that. And nice shout out for NARPM there. Daniel, obviously, people are listening to this, chances are good they're subscribed to the Triple Win newsletter and podcasts. But what's a podcast or newsletter or a book that you'd really recommend to a lot of other property managers that's been valuable for you?
Daniel Madison
The Gap and the Gain for books.
Ben Hardy, I was actually introduced to Ben Hardy through Triple Win. I did not know who he was.
And ask me about that story at another time and I'll share a funny about that particular experience.
But it turned me on to who Ben Hardy was. The Gap and the Gain, I say one year was my personal counselor. I may have read it three or four times back to back in a year. And as we talk about property management, we do have a lot of negativity that comes at different times. And so this really allows you to frame that into a positive mindset.
And what are the stories that we're telling ourselves with that? And so podcast wise, I'm a huge podcaster. It's hard to narrow in on just one podcast, but I do listen to a lot of EntreLeadership that comes out of the Dave Ramsey organization and a lot of their spin offs and programs that are part of that speaking network.
Andrew Smallwood
Okay. How about this?
What's the best advice you've ever received from the perspective of owning or running a property management business?
Daniel Madison
The opportunity to serve. My good friend and now coworker, Kit Garren was a competitor in my marketplace. He became a close friend and ultimately we get the great opportunity of working together today.
And he continues to bring me back to a place of service and the opportunity that we have to serve in the place that we're positioned in. And so I got the great opportunity to do that in the local marketplace when I was operating locally. I get the opportunity to do that on a national scale today with our operators. And I really take that to heart with everything that we do and how do we serve wherever we're planning.
Andrew Smallwood
Yep. And I think anybody who's spent enough time with you and Kit can probably feel that and your guys' intention in how you interact. Okay, Daniel, one more. As you look to the future of property management, what excites you most? Tell us a little bit about what you see there.
Daniel Madison
For us, it's bringing in new operators into the fold. We are certainly an acquisition company. And so we will see a couple to a handful of new operators each and every year come into the fold. And it's like welcoming new children into the family.
It's like the birth of a child into the family as we welcome people. So that's exciting first and foremost of what we do within Rhome. But as an industry holder, there's a lot of great thought that people are creative and I see our space changing.
Andrew Smallwood
And what does that change look like?
Daniel Madison
I wish I knew. I'm not the most creative person.
I'm a great person at copying and adapting and changing and then reapplying things through my experiences. But as I look at this space, it's changing.
And I think there's going to be a lot of great opportunities for people that serve in those local marketplaces and do boutique things. And I think the larger scale property management scaled out game is going to continue to grow. And we're going to see some opportunities and things that we haven't seen before.
Andrew Smallwood
Awesome. Well, yeah, I think that's a great note to end on. Daniel, always a pleasure. Thanks for your time today.
Daniel Madison
Thank you, Andrew.
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