In this episode, Jennifer Ruelens, broker/owner at One Focus Property Management and founder of Hold It with PM Jen, talks about how she picks and prepares the right real estate investors to fit into her machine. She delves into the importance of standardizing processes, but still making room to accommodate edge cases and make them successful with her company.
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Season 5 Episode 7 features Jennifer Ruelens, Broker/Owner at One Focus Property Management and founder at Hold It with PM Jen.
The Triple Win Property Management Podcast is produced and distributed by Second Nature.
Andrew Smallwood
Hello, professional property managers. Andrew Smallwood here from Second Nature and the Triple Win Podcast.
I'm joined by Jen Ruelens today. Jen, welcome to the Triple Win Pod.
Jennifer Ruelens
Hi, Andrew.
Andrew Smallwood
Thank you. Thank you for being here.
For people, Jen, who aren't familiar with you, I want to set up: you're the broker/owner of One Focus Property Management, which I believe is the largest property management company in the North-Central Pennsylvania area.
Jennifer Ruelens
Oh, yeah, central PA region, we are the largest. Yeah.
Andrew Smallwood
That's awesome.
And, Jen, you'll see, is a regular contributor at Triple Win events and other places and at NARPM, other associations, very involved in the community.
And, I've seen this thing recently, Jen, which I wonder if maybe is a fun way of getting started, but, Hold It with PM Jen, right? And PM Jen, can you explain what that is?
Because I'm seeing the content on social. Other property managers are seeing this content on social. I'm seeing people really intrigued by it, really engaging with it, really enjoying it. And I'm just curious, what is that?
What is Hold It with PM Jen?
Jennifer Ruelens
Thanks for saying you noticed! We are trying to get noticed. So what I did in 2025, I've always been all about education, which is why you've seen me out, and I love participating in these things. And my lifelong mission and passion has a lot to do with evangelizing buy-and-hold real estate investment for everyday Americans as a way to build generational wealth.
I love it. And I love that about my unsexy little community here is that these are real people doing really real things. They're making really real mistakes, which I get to help them with and prevent them from making. And so Hold It with PM Jen is a more formalized outreach that I started this year in 2025.
I took my whole marketing and advertising budget for my property management company, One Focus Property Management, and I put it into Hold It with PM Jen. And now I take that investor education, and I'm pushing it out in regional live events. I'm speaking at other people's events. I'm doing a lot of social media, video, and my podcast, Hold It with PM Jen.
And so I want to talk to investors. And I think, as you know, this is such a journey. This isn't like you turn it on and turn it off. This is something I've been working on for a long time and slowly as it made sense because, of course, I'm building a management company that has been very consuming.
But I want to be more, how do I want to say this?
Relatable. I want to be really transparent with people, and I think I'm going to end up niching down into millennial women. Because as I expand my geographical scope and I start talking to Americans in general, right, talking to all of them doesn't make sense, but there's a real void in that space. And I find with the investors I work with that their apprehension around the lack of education and lack of ability to really suss out the risk, generally speaking, keeps women from moving into this space.
Whereas I see men getting into the space, sometimes having success, but then sometimes not and then turning to services like One Focus. So I want women to be seeing that. I want a relatable face for them out there talking in a risk language they like. So I'm super passionate about Hold It with PM Jen.
But truly, you know, property managers, you guys, you're not my audience.
Andrew Smallwood
And yet, I bet there's property managers who are watching that and seeing what you're doing and appreciating it. Right? Like here, here's how you're educating the market market, talking about it, engaging with customers and like, it's a really big bet and an unconventional bet to say, as opposed to marketing my property management company and brand. Right? I'm going to build this mini media brand and entity and, you know, across multiple channels, and it's a very different strategy than a lot of people take. Can I ask you, like, how's it going so far? You're a few months in.
Jennifer Ruelens
So fun, and it's bringing me a ton. So locally, it's doing exactly what I wanted it to do, which is reposition the local, eager girl that they knew into what I truly am, which is an expert in the space and a national thought leader on it. It has also brought me the most incredible opportunities.
You know, partnering with Second Nature is one of them, but I am getting regularly in my inbox now people saying, I see what you're doing. What do you think about this? Or this is getting connected. So I have several long-term career long goals, things like legislation I want to see happen, entire, like, mindset shifts.
And this is a long con, as I always say. This is going to be a long term plan. So I'm meeting people, and I'm building skills, and I'm laying the groundwork. So it is going tremendously even though it doesn't look like too much yet.
But I'm really excited about it and what I would tell property managers is, you might look at this and say, “Oh wow, that's something!” You're doing this every day. Every phone call, every email, every employee conversation. Are you not educating on this and teaching these people how to do it? So just put a little stank on it and put it on the Internet. I mean, have a little fun with it.
Andrew Smallwood
That's awesome. I love that, like, hey, the point of view that you're evangelizing is, like, the long game of real estate. Right? Like, not here for the quick flip. You're here for the long game in real estate, and you're taking the same approach to building your audience, and what you're doing there, your reputation there. That's cool.
Jen, well, hey. Thanks for starting that. That was like a fun little side quest to get our conversation started here. But there's something I wanted to talk to you about, and this came up in our, I don't want to call it Tripe Win-vester onboarding because that would be, like, too punny.
But the Triple Win event that we did talking about investor onboarding, and we talked about before investor onboarding. There's obviously the sales process that's taking place. And some of the decisions you've made that have really made sense for you, really worked for you, and again, the strategy you're taking there, like, a lot of it is like, you're deeply kind of immersed in this sales process in your business. And I remember you commenting saying you've built a machine, right?
You built a machine at your company that's really good at doing a specific thing very well. And I'm just curious, could you describe to folks that, if they're not familiar, haven't heard this before, what that is, what your perspective on that is?
Jennifer Ruelens
Well, it usually sounds like when somebody says what their niche is. Right? So we manage, you know, residential properties, generally speaking, one to four units because that's what there is here.
And we do class a and class b. Okay? And that's usually what it sounds like. But for us, we have built what we call the proven process, which is really a machine full of processes.
Right? If each process is a gear, the machine is the big thing and as it works together. And what I need to do is put clients that match our expectations, that understand and trust us into the machine, and properties that work. You know, I can't do rent by the room student rentals.
Why? Because I have to change too many of the little gears every time I had to mess with it. Right? So I don't do that.
But there are some things we can do and we do expand into. I won't get into that. But that's what I mean when I say machine. And when I talk about it being a machine, I'm usually talking about the other version being more concierge.
Right? We can picture what a concierge property manager might look like. They're giving you a lot of time and attention, but there's not a lot of expertise and processes behind it. They might get a call about bed bugs and have to, like, do a little Googling.
Where nobody's Googling anything at One Focus. We have a proven process for handling this, and it's got a lot of reps, so it's an excellent process.
That is the difference. And when I say machine, I'm really trying to prepare the owner for how it's going to work. You're going to put it in and the machine's going to give it out. You don't get in the machine and start changing things when the machine's running.
Right? That's dangerous. And I've even told owners, like, get out of my machine. Get out.
Get out of my machine. Right? So that's what I mean when I talk about it and I'm always painting the other picture and I go, if that's what you need that's what you're going to get. And so that's what I mean when I say proven process and we put some illustrations to that so if clients are curious usually they're only curious when my requirements go against what they initially thought they wanted to or had to do.
That's it, right? And it's around like things like keyless entry. That's a really great one.
We require keyless entry on all the properties to our standard, and there's a couple other things that go with this. But if you're unwilling to do that, you're really not going to like what comes next, mister owner. Like, if you can't get on board with keyless entry this machine is going to be an unfriendly process for you. Same thing with insurance requirements.
You know? Everybody requires the same thing, but according to my experience with SureVestor, they're like, you're the only client that's ever shown up a hundred percent compliant. We were just looking to do it better. Right?
And I think we did the same thing with you with tenant insurance. When we came to Second Nature, you guys are the only ones that, like, they're all actually on insurance. And now we're selling them Second Nature insurance. I'm, like, yep.
And it's going to be easier and better. And if we would have done it with you, we wouldn't have done all this work, but we did it the hard way.
So I've gone on and on here. But, yes, that is the process, and that's how we kinda test in the beginning with some of those requirements.
It saves time.
Andrew Smallwood
I love this, like, defining who your customer is. And one thing that's really clear that's coming through already, Jen, is you're not just clear on who you're for. You're also very clear on who you're not for.
And as opposed to the concierge, like, come one, come all, and we'll do our best to meet a really diverse set of needs, you've gotten really clear and really specific on, here's our customer. I love the way you said this.
Like, they've got the right property, which many property managers will think about. Okay. I manage multifamily or single family. Right?
Or I manage student versus not. Like, what's the property type, lend itself to, but also with the right expectations, not just the right property, but the right expectations. And you were talking through a couple of these of like, hey, we have a process that you've got to understand and trust and be on board with, and it's like, we can't– the machine is not designed to constantly revisit these things. Right?
And it's certainly not designed to adjust these things. Right?
I'm curious from your standpoint as you're going through the sales process, what percentage of folks are you finding, like, okay. Like, we're disqualifying them versus, okay, they're qualifying in versus out. Like, how do you see that kinda mix out for you?
Jennifer Ruelens
That is a really good question that if I was better at this and, you know, had a boss, they might measure my conversion rate.
If we look at the three major steps in the sales process, right, you've got the discovery call, in our case, the property visitor consultation, and then the stabilization plan, which is where they're signing off on this is the way we're going to do it. At the discovery call, as I tell them, I'm trying to see if I want to work with you and your property. You want to see if you can possibly work with me. And, you know, you eliminate bad geo matches, bad property matches, and maybe even just random things like they're going to be a fair housing nightmare and things like that. Otherwise, I really try not to judge until I am face to face with you in your property, which means I do a lot of driving and going to properties I don't want to be at and having to get out of conversations, like, you roll up on a property and anybody listening has had this experience.
You roll up on a property and your hopes aren't set. But it's a four unit and this guy sounded reasonable on the phone, said they were rent ready and you show up and you're like, B.S. B.S. this is rent ready. How long until I can go to Perkins and get that salad I want?
I don't want to talk to this dude. He is crazy. And then you get in and the truth is you get in and you have that conversation and sometimes it's awkward. Sometimes it was like me last week where he's like, why won't you work with this?
And I want to be like, are you not sighted? I'm so sorry. Like, you just told me you're unwilling to put any money into this, and I can't make that work. So, that experience at the property visit is really probably where I'm making my decision.
Will I work with them and this property? The step after that is where I say, for how much and on what terms.
So I leave that property visit, hopefully educating them. Like, the thing I want to do when I'm there with them is educate them as to what I'm doing and what I'm attempting to do for them and how and giving them some optimism because sometimes I'm talking to somebody with no options and they're not going to be able to work with me and maybe they need to be doing a distressed sale. I don't know what it is but I try to give them some optimism and connections and connect them to my resources so that they'll be successful. That stabilization plan phase is where I'm giving them a detailed plan of, like, One Focus wants to manage your property.
This would be how it would look in our machine, right, which I hopefully prepped them for on the property visit. But I put it in black and white, and we start signing some things and writing some checks and those final steps. I just had a guy string me along for a year.
It was student, so you know, you kinda move in these, like, four to five month cycles. Oh, we're not going to get you now. We'll put you on at the end of the next semester. He strung me on for a year, and I did not do a good job in my process of going, is this guy for real or not?
But we all do it and the only way to do it is through repetition and I've made this process because that's what works for me. I have an unsophisticated market with small properties and they're very old. They're very often in distressed condition. So that's a process that works for me.
I don't just look it up online and say whether I would work with it or not. It's not like, oh, if it's newer than 1980, like, nothing's newer than 1980 here.
That isn't how it works. So we're flexible in terms of our geography more than we are in the types of clients and types of properties.
Andrew Smallwood
Okay. So I really like this of, hey. There's, like, an initial kinda quick prequalification process, so to speak.
Assuming that looks good, then there's kind of this critical step, that you're doing of going to the property, like, really getting eyes on it, really spending some time in person with it, with the client.
Jennifer Ruelens
It’s so effective because you're sharing the same space, you're sharing the same air, and you're looking at the same shitty floor at the same time.
I really resist people not going to that property visit or sending a substitute.
And, you know, sometimes it has to happen, but I really try to avoid that.
Andrew Smallwood
It makes so much sense. Like, hey. If we're looking at this together and we're disagreeing, right, about the state of this, is it like, gosh, we're probably going to have so many disagreements right after today.
And so rooting that out rooting that out quickly, it saves seems so much pain later. I’ve got to imagine, like, I know there's probably somebody hearing this and just feeling like, man, this feels great as a property manager to imagine being so clear on who my customer is and, like, just just being in a position, right, to really feel like I am choosing my customer as much as they are choosing me. I'm curious, Jen, you've been in business for years and years and years. Right?
And One Focus has hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of properties. Right?
Back, like, if you rewind back to, okay, we're getting our first fifty and a hundred, right, and two hundred.
Like, was this your process from the beginning? Like, was this something you set out for, like or did you kinda, like, evolve to this? Can you tell give us, like, a step back here on, like, how you got here.
Jennifer Ruelens
Where I came from was multifamily. I was a very successful large scale apartment property manager for for a big company in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Went to grad school, landed here. Now I'm working for individual investors with their small property. So I knew how to manage property. I didn't know what investors were like.
I didn't know what small investors were like at all. So I was giving them this expert solution and really operating at this high level, and they weren't and I had to figure out how to come to their level to speak to them.
So in the beginning, if I reflect, I mean, I signed doors like crazy, and almost none of them are still here. So, like, one big client, call it, like, eighty doors. I might have managed for him for eighteen months before I fired him. The other one I signed at that time that was, like, sixty doors plus, no. That was around forty doors, and they added, like, seventy couple years later.
I fired them two years ago and had to lose three staff over it. And, like, that was a tragic long story. It's way too long, but they hurt my company for a very long time, and it is taking me so long to recover from that choice and that loss. So the early failures taught me things, and then really that one two years ago, I've been working with this process now.
If I look at my stabilization plan folder since, like, 2021, like, formally the way it looks, before like, that is probably about when that problematic client I just fired really started to, like, be a problem around here and cause a lot of friction. And that experience, the pain of that is in my gut every time I stand on a porch and go, no, I'm so sorry. We won't be the right property manager for you.
And then I come back and I brag to my team because I am like I don't there's probably a classier way to say this, but I'm like Captain Save-a-ho out there with investors. Like, I will if you're, like, the saddest person, I'll be like, I guess I'll come out this weekend and do it with you.
Like, I really do feel that way about people, and I can't be doing that with my team.
My team has made it clear. They're like, this is a business, not like some sort of landlord charity. And they're right. They are absolutely right. And I do try to celebrate now when I say no.
Andrew Smallwood
Yeah. You know, and when like, I've heard often people say, like, when you're saying no, you're saying yes to something else. Right?
Or when you're saying yes, you're saying no to something else.
Jennifer Ruelens
And I'm saying yes to my team.
Andrew Smallwood
That's right.
Jennifer Ruelens
In my case, every time I'm thinking of their faces, going, “I care about you.”
Andrew Smallwood
Got it. Okay. So, hey, early on, it was like, well, yeah, let's bring on the clients and let's try this concierge approach and try to meet all these needs.
And through the pains of that, right, and what that's cost, right, over time, that really informed your perspective on getting clear on this. Can we talk a little bit more about the stabilization plan? Right? So okay.
You're at the property. You're with them. You're like, can you give us a sense of, like, walk is this a half page? Is it one page?
Is it ten pages? What are we working with here, and, like, what are the key parts of that you think people should know about?
Jennifer Ruelens
It's at least a page long. It could be many pages long. It addresses the current tenancy, the rent, deferred maintenance, and risks that need to be addressed. And it's all oriented around one definition of a stabilized property, which is one that attracts and retains qualified tenants at market rent with no deferred maintenance.
So let's go simple. One end of the spectrum is just like the gal, who just called me. She's getting married. She's going to move into the other house with the dude.
She has this house. She's going to rent it. She's not going to sell it. She's going to keep her investment in her name only.
Amen. So we're going to make that unit ready with some blinds, some touch up paints, some smoke detectors, get it a rental license, and lease it to a qualified tenant at market rent. So I'm laying out for her the exact punch list, how much rent she's going to get, the exact plan, and how long I think it's going to take. That's easy to imagine.
Now let's imagine a fifteen unit property. A fifteen unit property that maybe has, like, two vacant units, the rest are occupied, but to different levels of compliance. Right? So some of them aren't paying market rent.
Some of them are living in there with animals that shouldn't be. Some of them are smoking inside. You've got common area issues. You've got building deferred maintenance.
So something like that might look like, hey, upon your purchase or hiring of One Focus, we're going to do these five things to work on like stabilization. It could be a new trash vendor, fix the door locks, just stuff like this. And then three to six months, we'll do this, nine to twelve months, year two, year three. And this could go out to like, replace the roof, redo common areas.
Right? You know, depending on what it is. And to some of our listeners who only do single family, this is all Greek to them, laundry rooms and amenities. But if you do multi family, boutique multi family, this is a part of it.
So we put that plan together and then we go unit by unit. So I say, hey, unit one, the one that's vacant, it's worth a thousand bucks. You've got to paint it and put in a new kitchen floor. Boom.
Is that any more clear?
Like, we're not but I've given you the road. This is what it needs. And then maybe we go to unit two. They're paying fifty percent of market rent.
They're living in there smoking.
I'm telling you, I'm going to terminate the lease on this date because I've looked at their lease. I'm going to terminate it, renovate the unit, and then release it at this rent. And I get and we and listen, we go over this. It might take an hour or two to go over this document and answer all these things. And in that process, if they bring up reasonable things that I can accommodate, I do. If they say they're not going to do it or can't, that's evidence here that I thank goodness I didn't sign them. They're going to be a real nightmare.
Andrew Smallwood
I'm just imagining, like, if I’m this property owner. I'm in this situation. I'm like, in my head, I'm like, but, Jen, I'm going to sell this in two years. Like, I can't take this step back, get this resident out, do all this, and then well, obviously, like, that's not your customer. Right? You're Hold It with PM Jen. You're not, you know, you're not Twenty Four Months with PM Jen.
Jennifer Ruelens
I'm not Sell It with PM Jen, I'm Hold it.
And listen.
And that's okay if you want to sell it in two years. Not really okay if you want to sell it in one because that's not really how I work. But if you want to sell it in two, my argument to that client is, run it in this method so that it's worth the maximum amount. And by the way, in two years when it's making this money and not keeping you up at night, do you still want to sell it? Because if that was truly the case, you don't want to sell things. People don't sell things that are doing tremendous for them in my experience.
Andrew Smallwood
Totally. Totally.
Man, this is really, really good. I'm so curious because, like, you're doing more upfront, I think, than most people are doing. This is really, I mean, this is personal effort in person. Right? Thorough.
And, again, like, if somebody's not going to be your customer, they're still walking away with value. And I'm sure they've got a great positive brand reputation. They have a good leaving feeling because, hey. Jen wasn't doing all of this just to, like, handcuff me and shackle me and, like, try to sell me or close me into something that wasn't good for me.
I'm either, like, really clear on, like, what my expectations are and what she's going to deliver for me or she's referred me to another location. Right? Another way of solving my problem.
And I think, like, what's so interesting is doing all of this, I think most people would expect if you're going to have that thorough of a process and make that kind of investment, most companies would expect to have, like, a pretty meaningful longer term commitment or, like, a longer term contract. Because, like, hey. We've taken the time to figure out. We're going to get married.
Right? This is, like, hey. We got divorced before we got married. And so this is a long term commitment.
Right? But, like, surprisingly, you've taken the exact opposite approach. Like, can you talk about that and, like, your thinking and and decision about your company policy for that?
Jennifer Ruelens
We made a decision when it came to issuing our guarantee, and the thirty day guarantee came up. You know, you can stop working with us at any point with thirty days notice. No questions asked. Right?
Which lets them sell the property when they want and things like that. And at first, we had the same opinion, you know, you kinda just stated, which is very rational and reasonable. And then I reflected on the previous years. I'd probably been in the business, like, seven years at that point, had the business.
It's been about thirteen now. And I said, but wait a minute. Every time this contract has been a problem, it's been a problem for me because I don't get fired. I want to fire people.
And so the truth is, and clients, if you're listening and clients, if you get me with a loose enough tongue, I'll tell you. I'll tell you the thirty day guarantee exists so that you, mister owner, are never held hostage by me. If I change things up around here and the service starts to stink, you are not beholden to that. You don't have to figure that out.
You can just go. And it's my job to keep that service high and earn your business every single month.
But on the other side, if you decide to become a full nightmare, if you decide to present a new bevy of challenges, if you decide to get wacky-dacky, I'm also going to exercise that same right. And that is really who's been using it. In an early scenario, I have clients leave me, you know, because they sell the property or, you know, after time, it's all very reasonable. And in those cases, what would I have done?
Controlled their decision to happen in July versus January. Right? So that's how I feel about it. It has not bit us.
I feel good about it. I know the whole company is aware of it. We all know, you know any of these clients can make a different decision at any time and that's why we have to be better every day. But they deserve it.
We're their managers. We should never stop getting better. That's what managers do. If I had a pizza shop and had a manager he better be taking like cheese continuing ed And, like, health and safety continuing ed.
I don't know how to run the point of sale system more efficiently. Well, that's what we're doing. We're doing it better, and it's just, it's easy not to get fired here because nobody's doing anything close to what we're doing. But that won't be forever.
Right? That won't be forever. And I think that's one thing AI might do is close the gap between, like, good and great in different professions. You might be able to collapse that time a little bit. We'll see what young people do with it. You know, Andrew, we won't be using it. We're so elderly.
We can't possibly.
Andrew Smallwood
Oh my gosh.
I think this is so interesting. Like, there's so much investment upfront and then, like, giving it all away. Right? This is a thirty day effectively month to month agreement.
Jennifer Ruelens
Basically, you know, Andrew.
At the end of this, I'm picking my clients. Like, they either don't get on board.
Right? Like, I know by the time I get to the stabilization plan, I'm kinda like, do I want this or don't I? And if I do, under what terms? And then I try to sell from there, but I really don't get no's.
I get can'ts. I get can'ts. I can't. Yeah. I can't invest fifty thousand into my two unit, and that's just what am I going to do with that?
Okay.
Andrew Smallwood
So I have a question, Jen, of, like, if we were to look through your client list, how many of them would you, like, put in the bucket of the persona of intentional investor and, like, more experienced versus, like, the accidental, hey, like, maybe I want to be an investor, but, like, the reality is I don't have a ton of education about this. This asset kinda fell in my lap.
You know, I just found myself in this situation and was looking for help. Like, based on, based on where you are today, like, what or if you've got a different framework for, like, who you're working with as a persona, like, how would you characterize that?
Jennifer Ruelens
It kinda breaks out into, like, twenty, sixty, twenty. So the bottom twenty are what I would call true accidentals.
One unit or one building, never going to get another one till they die or whatever. The top twenty percent are my, like, they think they're investors, and I think they're investors.
And they're engaging investor like behavior and all that kind of thing. Then my middle sixty are somewhere in between. Right? They might be accidental aspiring or early investor, and I define those cohorts by their behaviors and attention to the asset.
Andrew Smallwood
So that's great. I think and, you know, a question I have is, like, if I'm in the twenty or the sixty percent who's who's less experienced or, like, learning. Right?
Real estate is still emotional. Right? And so, like, I can imagine there's a number of these people who, like, you've set clear expectations. Right?
And, again, there's this thirty day out. So if it isn't working out, you can let them go or part ways, right, as friends.
You know, but, like, does your team find okay, like, we set great expectations, everything else, but, man, when the rubber meets the road later, this like, gosh. So much of my net worth is caught up in this asset or it's the home I grew up in or whatever reason. I've got these emotional attachments.
And even though I, like, I want things to be machine-like and I want to be able to let go, I can't help myself but get into it a little bit and ask those questions and try to step into your machine. And it sounded like earlier, like, hey. I've had these conversations later of, like, you're in my machine. You gotta get out.
Right? Can you talk to us a little bit about those kind of accountability conversations? Like, how do you have these respectfully, professionally, but not in such an extended way where you're obviously wasting your precious time, which you value highly? Like, how do you and your team kind of like, what are you encountering there, and how do you guys handle that?
Andrew Smallwood
Well, I mean, really simply, the way I teach my team is we use the feel, felt, found. Totally understand how you feel. Other people felt the same way. What they found is this.
And then we try to move we don't want to spend too much time in empathy town. I mean, I really kinda brand us as badass property managers and badasses don't cry in their Cheerios. Right? We move on and make money.
So we do a little feel, felt, found, but then what's really important and what's going to help that person in their vulnerable position right now is leadership. And that's what you're paid to do. And so I talk about showing leadership in relationships. I show leadership in my romantic relationship with my husband, and I show leadership with all my relationships.
And so with the property manager, though, what that looks like is, you know, maybe we had a client who we thought was going to be steady Eddie. No problem.
Big bad thing happens.
You know, we got one right now. A nice neighborhood. The neighbors have decided they hate our tenant in the single family house and have taken to pretty much, like, stalking them. Everything short of swatting them to document their behavior, every little piece of trash that blows, whatever. And they've gotten the whole city government on an email chain about it.
So that's really upsetting our client, who is a member of this community, who feels like their friends are really irritated by their “slumlord tactics”. Right? This is the feeling and emotion that's going on. And what we're doing is setting out an inspection schedule, over communicating, holding to the least, educating all parties as to what's actually required here and what they're trying to make required, right?
And that's leadership. So I would tell anybody who's struggling with those conversations, of course, you have to have empathy. Of course, you have to be that person. But if that's where all your persuasion is coming from, you'll lose.
Like you can't sit in somebody's confusion and empathize with it with and and get them out of it without showing leadership and moving past it. And that's what we try to do is just show that leadership through, and it's really effective. People respond to a well worn path that's made easy for them to follow.
Andrew Smallwood
And, you know, you mentioned, hey. Like, this is really how you think about all of your relationships, right, of, like, ones with the foundation of trust, one with the foundation of respect. There's clear accountability. There's clarity on what being in the right relationship looks like and being willing to take a leadership role.
Right? Meet people where they're at, but, hey. Here's where we're going. So I'm curious.
Like, are there examples of this, like, when you think about this with residents and when you think about this with your own team, right, and how you're engaged with your team? Could you talk a little bit about that?
Jennifer Ruelens
Yes. And just I think when I put it this way, you'll understand. Ring ring Tenant calls. I had bugs in my bed this morning.
They're not calling you because they know they're like, well, they're going to say this and then that and then this and then I'm going to say this and it's done. They're calling because they don't know what to do. They don't understand what should happen. And the role of the property manager is to go, okay.
Yeah. That is tough. Feel, felt, found. Got it. Rock it. But here's what's going to happen next.
Gary is going to be by there today at three. He's going to do x, y, and z based on what he finds, then the next step starts tomorrow. I'm going to give you the full lay of the land so you can get– but I want you to know, I've done this over twenty times.
I've never had a revisit and I'm super pumped to get this solved for you. Right? And the team member, because they've got a process, they do have the experience here, you know, luck you know, well, not luckily we did that.
They're ready to handle it. And that and when that person hangs up the phone, they're not delighted. They're not like, yay. They’re pissed.
They're going to tell everybody at their office about their bed bugs. You know, they're so they're going to be an HR issue at the printing company that day. But at home, they're not going, what's going to happen next? Who's in my house?
When is this over? How much is this going to cost? They have answers. So when we can show that leadership and educate them, we can keep them calmer.
And by the way, they don't know how to be compliant with it unless we tell them. So laying it out and by, you know, having a handout, even if I only use the handout twice a year, it's not about the ease of me using the handout. It's about the power of the handout getting that guy to do what I wanted to do. Makes it look like it happens all the time and all he has to do is follow the handout.
It's kinda like teaching stuff, you know. I call it showing leadership. It's really teaching, maybe.
Andrew Smallwood
I really like this, and maybe here's my last question on this before we do a little rapid fire at the end, a couple fun quick ones.
Jennifer Ruelens
Yeah.
Andrew Smallwood
So, Jen, I would say, like, something I really love about our conversation is you've got a very clear communication style. And I'm sure people listening to this, like, a lot of people will feel, like, your energy, but, like, the care, but, like, the confidence with which you communicate, the candor with which you communicate.
And they're like, oh, like, this is great. Like, I want to communicate like this. But I think a lot of people would say that because it's not the way they experience communication normally or it's not a default mode for many. And so I'm curious, like, in your company, is this something you hire for and look for?
Is it something that you train to? Is it, like, how if this is kind of the communication that you expect everyone on your team to be having with owners and residents, right, and vendors, etcetera. Like, is this something you're hiring for? Is this something you're training to?
Like, how do you ensure this is, like, a consistent thing across the organization?
Jennifer Ruelens
In the beginning, we hired for it. So in the beginning, I hired people who looked and act, well, not looked, but acted like me. Right? I felt like they could substitute for me and my genius with many helpers model. Right? They could substitute.
Now we hire for all different kinds of things depending on the role. But the leadership, the authority is really, I would say, now trained for and built into the processes. You know, we've just had an issue come up in a level ten meeting this week with the maintenance text.
We have a new maintenance coordinator. And this maintenance coordinator has defaulted kinda committing to times for people on their schedule where that doesn't actually work. They need more, like, longer blocks and that sort of thing. And, yeah, we had to go back to the new coordinator, and she says, well, they're asking, and they want, and this and that.
And we had to kinda train and educate her. No. In fact, you're going to use a statement like this, and when challenged, you can use this statement. And we call it systemizing the expected and humanizing the exceptions.
She still has the ability to make an appointment if needed at eight AM only.
You know, there's some rules. So nobody gets an appointment except for the couple people who get an appointment for really great reasons, and it's eight AM. Now we've taught her how to show leadership. So she's showing leadership in that everyday process, making that go smoothly, smoothing off the burrs so we can be more efficient.
I'm doing it on this other end where I'm more like, you're a fair housing nightmare. You're going to be sued. Right? Those more kinds of conversations.
Andrew Smallwood
Awesome. Well, Jen, here's how we're going to wrap up the episode. Just a couple, like, rapid fire lightning ground, questions here. So quick questions and, and quick answers, and then we'll sign off here.
What's an important topic in the industry right now that you feel like isn't being talked about enough?
Jennifer Ruelens
Fair housing.
What it controls and dictates so much of how we provide the service to our clients' customers, the tenants, right, the residents.
And we don't talk about it at all. It's also the hugest area of vulnerability.
And not for nothing, it's really part of what we should be doing as better people. It's also better business. To comply with fair housing is to run your business better. So I'm very frustrated that fair housing doesn't come up enough, that we're not talking about those issues, you know. Like, for instance, the administration just rolled back the DEI protections and disparate impact, you know, which for us, the most recent thing that came out was in 2016 regarding criminal history.
And I came to my team and I said, Hey, a lot of our colleagues in the industry are really happy about this. And we looked at our process and we remember when we changed it, we weren't happy, we weren't happy, we changed to accommodate and comply and we reflected since 2016 and went nothing bad's happened, it's actually not even been really a problem, Why would we change this process that, you know, I so fair housing. Sorry. You said rapid fire, and I ranted.
Andrew Smallwood
That was worth, that was worth going a minute. So thank you for sharing that.
Okay. Next one. If you could recommend one book to every property based on everything you've learned, your experience now, what's one book you would recommend to professional property managers?
Jennifer Ruelens
Traction. I'm an evangelist for it. It saved my business, my relationship with my business in 2019. I'll never run a business not on traction.
Traction and the whole traction library. Read them. Small business people. It's for small business people.
It's not property management specific.
Andrew Smallwood
Alright. Gina Wickman. Traction. You heard it here. Next.
What is the best advice that you've been given in your property management entrepreneur career?
Jennifer Ruelens
In my property management career, it's two words, “Go see.”
This was on the back page of a property management magazine when I was a leasing agent. Old man in the business, you know, same question, best advice. He said, go see. I put it on a Post it, and I trained everybody with it, and here's why.
Nothing is as unsolvable as a problem you can't see and get your arms around. So just go see it because it's usually not as bad as you think. And once you see it, you're able to solve it. So just go see, get in the muck, get in the grit, see and solve.
Andrew Smallwood
Love that. Great property managers are great problem solvers. If you can understand it, you can do something about it.
Jennifer Ruelens
That's the secret to holding. The secret to holding. Solve the problems. Don't sell them.
Andrew Smallwood
Love that.
Jen, last one here is, as you look to the future and what you see for our industry in the years ahead, what gives you the most optimism? What gives you the most excitement for what you see in front of us?
Jennifer Ruelens
Optimism and excitement?
Gosh. I shouldn't take this long to come up with something I'm optimistic and excited about. You know, I am excited to see what gen x and gen or not gen x. Gen z and gen generation alpha, and even to some degree millennials because we are getting a late start at things. So what do these post x generations do with the trope of landlord v. tenant?
I don't think they're going to continue to love that. Like what other business has this Tom and Jerry, cat and dog, we hate each other always no matter what vibe? And particularly those of us in the, like, where they're individually owned, so we're dealing with the emotions of our clients along with the emotions of the tenants. Right?
What do we do there? What role does prop does prop do property managers have in explaining the dynamics, explaining the agency, the responsibility?
And, yeah, maybe these younger generations start to put forward the concept of we're not landlords, we're housing providers. This is services you're procuring in a capitalistic, you know, economy, and we're held to high standards in customer service and support. So that's what I'd be optimistic to say the younger generations might have a better handle on it.
Andrew Smallwood
Well, I think that's a great note to end on since this is the Triple Win podcast. We certainly think about how do we create experiences and relationships between residents, investors, managers that get things spiraling in a positive direction as opposed to a doom loop the other way. And, Jen, I really appreciate everything you shared today. I love that we went deep on the sales process.
How you think about it? There's so much here of, like, mindset and attitude. There's so much here about, like, policy and key decisions down to, like, tactical process and action steps that people can take. And I just really appreciate you being able to speak so well at all of those levels about this topic and joining us today.
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